Prepare for nerd rage!
I’m on my big Dragonball Z kick and it got me thinking a bit about the series as a whole and what it did right. Then again, it got me thinking about what it did wrong. I started to think of some things that didn’t quite make sense, even after I watched the series a few times in the English translation, then checked the Japanese original subtitles to make sure. You can do mostly the same thing by buying a DVD set. I suggest Season One. Here are my findings for the Top 10 Biggest Plot Holes in Dragonball Z.
10. Vegeta Hated By Proxy:
Can you really hate a guy that can rock a pink shirt like that?
I might be stretching a bit here, but this was always something that kind of bugged me. Vegeta was the “Big Bad” of the first major plot arc of the series, though afterward he was generally a good guy, with a few minor exceptions. Still, a bunch of the Z Fighters can’t tolerate his presence due to their first encounter. The total number of good guys he killed was actually, uh, zero. Yamcha was killed by a self-destructing Saibaman (planted by Nappa), Chiaoztu killed himself attacking Nappa, Tien died fighting Nappa, Piccolo died protecting Gohan from Nappa, and uh, well Vegeta didn’t blow up any cities or army folk or anything. He did, however, kill Nappa (though it wasn’t very nice of him). But still he’s looked down upon until he proves again and again that he’s a good guy, even saving Gohan and Krillin’s lives a few times.
9. The Afterlife Is More a Suggestion:
This is one of the glorious watchers of the universe. Yup, we're doomed.
When characters die, they go to the Spirit Realm, a place on another plane of existence where there is a check-in station, a Heaven, a Hell, and planets above those where the Kais live to govern everything. Problem is, these Kais don’t really do much. They are supposed to be the “gods” of the world, yet they are frequently completely shocked when they discover what Goku and his friends are capable of. Beyond this, there’s the problem of villains getting killed and going to the afterlife, yet somehow being controlled by stupid ogres. When Goku dies (the first time), he asks King Yemma, the guy in charge of the check-in station, if his brother Raditz came by. King Yemma mentions that Raditz came by and was sent down below. Goku is amazed by this since Raditz was the strongest fighter they’ve dealt with at that point and wants King Yemma to train him instead of King Kai, to which Kami says that King Kai is stronger. Later, after Goku reaches King Kai for training we discover that Vegeta and Nappa are stronger than King Kai and that Goku must become stronger than him in order to stand a chance. From that point on the villains get stronger and stronger, but they all get sent down below without much problem. One question though: How? If King Yemma isn’t stronger than King Kai, and Vegeta is stronger than King Kai, and Frieza kills Vegeta, how can Frieza be controlled by King Yemma when he is eventually killed? Just think about that a bit.
8. Frieza ‘s Family:
A touching moment between father and son...in the underworld.
Speaking of Frieza, we learn that he is the ruler of the universe and commands a massive empire. King Kai is terrified when he learns that the Z Fighters have encountered Frieza since Frieza is so dang strong. It is agreed that Frieza is absolutely the strongest fighter in the universe. When Goku defeats Frieza in battle everything seems all well and good, but then Frieza comes back as a cyborg…with his father. Somehow Frieza also has a father named King Cold, a guy that would have to be above Frieza in leadership, though perhaps not strength. So where’d this father all of a sudden come from? Oh, and Frieza also has a brother named Cooler, though technically he’s only seen in the non-cannon movies. Still, strongest guy in the universe, but oops, forgot to mention he has a father that’s the same race. There’s a whole race of these beings, so where are they and why aren’t they all as well known and all powerful as Frieza? So many things to consider.
7. The Dragonballs’ Rules or Lack Thereof:
"Pff, whateva, I do what I want!"
For a show that’s called “Dragonball Z” they don’t seem to care about the actual Dragonballs all too much. It’s very rare when the Dragon actually needs to be summoned and then it’s usually only to restore everyone that was just killed in a decisive battle. The rules go that the Earth Dragon can only grant one wish and he won’t grant the same wish more than once. The Namekian Dragon will grant the same wish all you want, has three wishes, but won’t wish back more than one person at a time. Characters ask from time to time why they don’t just have the Dragon wish the villain away, with the explanation being that the Dragon is only as powerful as the person that created it, namely Kami, Guru, Dende, and Mori (all Namekians with unimpressive powers). Yet the Dragon can wish back entire populations, restore planets, grant immortality, and all sorts of other cool powers. So why can’t the makers of the Dragons do those things? Not sure, but even worse is when those rules I mentioned stop coming in to play any time they really need those rules not to apply.
For instance, when Goku is wished back to life the first time he loses his halo while still on King Kai’s planet, followed by having to race back to the check-in station and then to Earth. Later in the series, all you have to do is wish someone back to life and they instantly appear wherever the plot sees fit, such as in front of the Dragonballs or wherever the character actually died. It just seemed a bit too much that the item of the show’s title doesn’t even have strict rules or anything as long as the plot needs those rules to be forgotten for a moment or two.
6. Goku’s Two Escapes From Namek:
Wait a minute, I swear I saw you explode...
Now we’re really getting serious with our plot holes. After Goku defeats Frieza he is left on the planet Namek as it is exploding. We get an episode where he struggles to get back to his ship, fails, tries to get Frieza’s ship to work, fails to do that, watches it fall into lava, then floats around in the sky as the planet explodes. We learn he didn’t die somehow, but it isn’t until Trunks shows up that Goku explains what happened. He says he saw one of the Saiyan-style pod ships falling near Frieza’s spaceship, jumped into it, and took off right as Frieza’s ship hits the lava and the planet explodes. That’s all good and well except WE SAW THAT SEQUENCE NOT HAPPEN. The episode with Goku on the exploding planet clearly shows Goku watching Frieza’s ship fall into lava from way up in the air and then deal with the planet exploding. You can’t show us two separate versions of the same event and tell us, “Oh yeah, he totally got off somehow. We were just lying about the first one to trick you.” That doesn’t cut it, but things get worse.
5. Buu Doesn’t Play By His Own Rules:
"Whateva! I do what I want!"
Majin Buu is established early on as having the power to turn people into various candies and sweets and then eat them. This kills them. It just does. They become food and are then eaten, being chewed to bits. When Majin Buu inadvertently creates Evil Buu and is then defeated in combat since he is turned to chocolate, Evil Buu eats him and then transforms into Super Buu. Okay, a little odd, but whatever. Later, Super Buu turns most of the non-essential Z Fighters into chocolate and eats them, which definitely kills them since we see them in the Other World after that. Jump ahead a bit and Super Buu is absorbing fighters and gaining their powers. Jump ahead some more and Goku and Vegeta are wandering around Buu’s innards, rescuing Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccolo. They find them in what they call “People Pods.” They also find Majin Buu, the original fat Majin Buu, in one of these pods. Huh? So what, people are absorbed only when it makes sense? Why wasn’t Krillin absorbed then when he was eaten? Why weren’t millions of the world’s population not found absorbed in the same fashion? Even worse, when Majin Buu is removed from Super Buu he reverts to Kid Buu instead of the gray Evil Buu. That’s quite enough of that, so let’s move on.
4. Planet Vegeta Destroyed 4 Years Ago…23 Years Ago:
"You ever see Superman? It was like that, bro."
This is the first plot hole to appear in the series but it’s kind of a big one for me. Raditz shows up and informs Goku that they’re brothers and Saiyan warriors, of which there are four left in the universe. Why? Well, their planet blew up, that’s why. Raditz says it was a meteor that hit the planet (something that other characters “confirm” with a little flashback scene of it happening), though we learn in the very next plot arc that Frieza blew up the planet. So where’s the plot hole (other than the inconsistencies of the explosion)? Raditz says the planet blew up four years ago. I checked this a few times between the English and the Japanese subtitles and yes, he says four years (according to our English editions). Problem here is that Planet Vegeta, the Saiyan’s homeworld, was destroyed right as Goku was leaving it. Goku is at this point in the series roughly 23, so, do the math. Not huge since it’s just a small error, but still, kind of huge when you consider the fact that it hasn’t been fixed even after the “definitive remastered and redubbed super versions” I bought.
3. Restore The Earth; Forget The Rest:
"Hey Vegeta, you shouldn't eat other races." "WHATEVA! I DO WHAT I WANT!"
At the end of the series the Earth has been blown up. Kid Buu succeeds in wasting it pretty handily, making him the most effective villain (which makes sense as he’s the final villain of the series). Goku and Vegeta make it off the planet and craft plans to destroy Kid Buu with an elaborate scheme involving a Spirit Bomb made from all the energy from people on Earth. That means they need the planet back, so they wish the Namekian Dragon to restore the planet, then all the people killed since the beginning of Buu’s appearance as Majin Buu. The plot goes off perfectly (although delayed), and Kid Buu is eliminated for good. But wait a second, what was Kid Buu doing while Goku and Vegeta fled the planet? He reformed in space and transported himself to a new planet in search of the two. Not finding them there he blew up that planet and skipped around from planet to planet blowing up each one until Goku and Vegeta summoned him to the super secret mystical world of the Kais. Dozens of planets are destroyed, but they only bother to wish the Earth and its inhabitants back to life. Sure, I get why, what with the plot to make a really powerful Spirit Bomb, but are those other planets so insignificant? And what about planets that Vegeta blew up on his way to Earth? And for that matter, what about planets Frieza blew up? Why not wish Planet Vegeta back? Apparently no one else but us Earthlings matter. Good news for us I suppose.
2. Power Levels Over 9000:
Ironic that he goes on and on about Saiyans keeping their pride, yet this image has been mocked more times than well...9000.
I can’t help myself but bring in the classic joke that the series is still famous for. In the very first saga when Vegeta and the Saiyans in general are introduced we find out that Vegeta is strong enough to blow up planets when firing directly at them. Cool. He fights with Goku and when he clocks his power level he finds out it’s over 9000, which is apparently a big deal. The real fight begins and when the two are powering up Bulma is half way around the world checking their powers with her own scouter which explodes when one of them reaches something like 26,000. The planet shakes from this and all sorts of natural disasters occur (but not enough to destroy the world, for some reaon). The next time a power level is read it’s Goku’s on Namek, topping out over 180,000. Now we’re getting big time. The last known power reading that we can measure by the same standard is Frieza’s as he claims he has a power level of one million, a fact that pretty much everyone confirms. Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan and outclasses Frieza, so his power level is well over that million mark. And powers just keep getting bigger and bigger from there with Super Saiyan 2’s and 3’s and “Powers like I’ve never felt before.” So if a power level of 26,000 can nearly shake the world apart, why doesn’t a power level past one million instantly crumble the planet just from existing? These guys have power levels in the millions, probably tens of millions, and they’re slamming into each other with energy ricocheting all over the place. How did the Earth not explode just from this? Because it wouldn’t be convenient to the plot of course. So if this is bad, what’s the worst offense?
1. Namek’s “Five” Minutes:
"Learn to tell time? WHATEVA! I DO WHAT-" *cut off by explosion*
It just couldn’t be anything else. During the Frieza Saga, the villain in question decides he can’t beat Goku as a Super Saiyan and decides to blow up the planet by shooting an energy blast straight to the core. The planet doesn’t blow up right away though. Frieza gives it “five minutes” before it goes. They make a big deal about the “five minutes” thing. The rest of the fight between Goku and Frieza must happen in “five minutes.” This is what happens in “five minutes”: Goku and Frieza fight, Goku allows Frieza to achieve 100% maximum power, Gohan takes Piccolo back to Goku’s ship, Gohan finds Bulma and takes her back to the ship as well, Frieza throws Goku into lava, Gohan returns and fights Frieza, Goku returns and fights Frieza again, King Kai has Kami wish all the Namekians back to life, Dende awakens and flies over to the Namekian Dragon and wishes everyone but Goku and Frieza off the planet, Goku and Frieza finish fighting, Frieza decides to keep fighting Goku anyway, Frieza cuts himself in half on accident (big ol’ oops), Goku saves Frieza’s life, Frieza has an episode-long flashback about their battle, Frieza attempts to kill Goku AGAIN, Goku shoots one heck of an energy beam back and defeats Frieza, Goku runs around and looks for a way off the planet, Goku causes Number Six on this list, then the planet blows up. THEN the planet blows up. All in “five minutes.” That’s something like ten episodes where the planet is “five minutes” from destruction. You can count up a single episode worth of talking between Goku and Frieza and it equals over five minutes, so how does everything happen in “five minutes?
Still a heck of a fight, though.
You want my explanation? The one that will prove I’m WAY too much of a geek? Okay, here goes: Nobody said the five minutes was in Earth time. For that matter, no one said it was in Namekian time either. Frieza comes from some planet that we never get to see, so for all we know “five minutes” translates into “two hours Earth Time.” See what I just did? I thought way too deep about that. Still, despite my stretching for an answer, there really isn’t one that the series explains. None of the characters seem to question this “five minute” logic at all, not even to mock Frieza. And that’s why it takes the number one spot on my list.
Alright, that was a heck of a list, wasn’t it? But I can’t be the only DBZ fan out there that has way too much time on their hands, right? This is your chance to either explain some of these plot holes, or point out some that I missed. There is bound to be something. Let me hear it with a comment. That’s what the comment buttons are for down there.
You might also enjoy these DBZ articles:
-Ten Worst Instances of Filler
-Ten Most Awesome Moments of DBZ
Oh yea, one more thing:
Goku gets wished back to life (via shenron), defeats nappa and vegeta, lays in a hospital for about a month or month and a half, eats a senzu, flys to namek in 5 days, fights frieza and 3/4 thru the fight shenron restores all the nakemians back to life…(I kno, you covered it) but seriously, dang man. Bend the rules much? hahaha
Ok, I didn’t read all the comments, but I kno of a few “plot-type holes”:
1) it takes Goku almost 20 years of constant training and fighting to reach (440?) against Raditz, one year…scratch that, 2-3 months (maybe? And sure, under 10x normal grav) to more than quintuple his “power level”…and 6 days (yes, impossibly excessive gravity blah blah blah) to multiply THAT by almost 40x, and again “about an hour” (just for getting an out of body ass whoppin) to come up to levels to compete with 1,000,000+ Frieza??? Convenient…
2) ok, then it takes goku about 9 months to get to king kai’s, fine. Then yamcha, Tien, piccolo, and chaotzu do it in about a month, ok (I’ll give it to em cuz they were stronger at the time of their deaths than goku…and there were four of them to “help” each other out). Finally (just because it must have been convenient and uber cool to do it) the ginyu force just gets automatically sent to king kai’s planet…because peoples lives are at stake? A whole planet? The universe? No, just to train 3 weakish guys who can mysteriously walk through them after a week of training, even though the stronger characters just fought tooth and nail to hold on long enough for help to arrive.
3) also in relation (sorta) to #1, it takes goku about 5 days to get to namek, it’s said that the ginyu force should take about as long. Yet while goku is halfway there, the ginyu force gets called on AND beat him to the planet. Wow.
4) where are all the creatures that namekians can supposedly spit out via egg? Or can piccolo only do that? And there’s seriously only ONE namekian to survive a horrible storm and repopulate the planet? Oh well. If the namekians are a kind and purehearted race, why is nail the only one to learn “the ancient arts” and possess a power of 40,000? Then again, why is Kami/piccolo SO strong vs everyone else on their homeworld?
I could go on, but I’ll give it a rest. Btw, I love the series and anything before the androids is awesome…even the android saga is cool enough. But seriously, WTF lol. I will add this as a final note tho, possibly an explanation (not a solid one, but an explanation nonetheless). The whole 26,000 vs 1,000,000+ arguement: MAYBE (just maybe) the stronger characters were more disciplined in controlling their rediculous powers so they didn’t destroy the planet they chose to destroy anyway via fighting. Btw, not that gt really counts but:
5) blackstar dragons; yea, the whole negative energy thing was kinda clever except there were three sets of dragon balls used to grant the wishes that “spawned” the dragons. And it’d seem to me that each set would have it’s own “negative energy”, not all of em share :\
Or 3rd twist is goku didn’t want to train with vegeta or trunks because it wouldn’t be a father son moment. so he just said it to get away from vegeta
Yh it sucks don’t it, anyway thanks man
I see what you mean Chris but it seems even your explanation may not work and this may still remain an actual legit clear-cut geniun plot hole, let me explain.
Well you said that the only explanation is that the Hyperbolic Time Chamber’s time difference of one day earth time to hyperbolic time chamber time is 1 year and this only applies when two or less people are in the Time Chamber, and if more than two people are in the Chamber then the time diference doesn’t apply anymore meaning that the time in the Time Chamber is the same as the Earth Time, so no time difference is applied anymore when more than two people are inside. I think this is what you meant Chris.
Now this is what also I have descovered that even your explanation ‘might’ work out making this a actual Plot Hole with no possible explanation backing it up, here it is. When Piccolo Goten, Trunks and Super Buu are all together inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in the episode ‘Time Struggle’, Goten then fuses with Trunks to form one being called Gotenks reducing the number to three people in side the Chamber, so this is still over the maximum of two. Then in the next episode called ‘Super Moves of Gotenks’, Gotenks becomes Super Saiyan(then Super Saiyan 2 Theoretically), fights Buu, then in the next episode called ‘Trapped in Forever’ Gotenks blows up Buu with his Kamcarsy attack, Buu reforms, Buu beats up Gotenks a little bit, Gotenks acts as if he has no more ideas left, Piccolo has no choice but to destroy the only exit back to Earth meaning that they are trapped in forever. Gotenks panics because he then reveals that he still has a big trick up his sleave, Piccolo blames Gotenks for destroying the exit for leaving him with no choice, then in the next episode called ‘Feeding Frenzy’ Super Buu screams the top of his voice for a way out, he opens up a rip in the dimension to the earth demension, then he escapes through this portal and then before
Gotenks and Piccolo could escape the portal closes leaving them with no way out. Then as Super Buu is on Kami’s look out now with the other Z fighters, he turns them all into chocolate and kills them all. Then Piccolo and Gotenks escape the Time Chamber by Gotenks revieling is trick that he has up his sleave which is revieled as him trasnforming into Super Saiyan 3 and now he has the power to rip a hole in the dimension with his voice so they both can escape. They both escape but on earth only a couple of minutes had passed before they returned and in the time chamber a couple of hours had passed so your explaation can’t work, but hold your horses because here is some more information. Now on the episode ‘Search for Survivors’ this is a much later episode after Gohan returns from Supreme Kai’s planet and this is what is said in the conversation bewteen Piccolo and Gohan when serching for Dende(this conversation reflects back to the episode ‘Feeding Frenzy’ where Buu escpapes the from Time Chamber and kills every one and Piccolo is trying to figure out how Dende did not die) – Piccolo:”There’s still one thing I can’t quite figre out” Gohan:”What’s that?” Piccolo:”How Dende managed to survive, Buu had ample time to hunt him down” Gohan:”Huh?” Piccolo: “When Buu gave us the slip(as in when Buu escaped from the Chamber) it was quite some time before we managed to catch up with him again(it took them a couple of hours), so even if Dende got away, Buu would have found him” ***Gohan:”I see, but you guys where fighting in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber weren’t you, so to you a couple of hours passed before you got out, but on the outside that same amount of time would equate to a couple of minutes would it not” Piccolo:”Yes! Thats it! Thats obvious why didn’t I think of that my self, i’m such a fool!”. So because of the information given in this conversation, it seems that the time difference was happening the whole time even when piccolo, Gotenks and Super Buu where in the Time Chamber and that the difference of time from inside the chamber and earth is still slower as Gohan said that the couple of hours would have equated to a only a couple of minutes, so according to this your theory can’t work but hang on a sec, there is a way your explanation can work as there could be another way. When you said that when two or more people are inside the chamber, the time in the chamber is exactly the same as the time on earth and when two or less people are inside the time difference applies meaning the time is slower inside the chamber from earth when two or less people are inside, well when Piccolo and Buu entered the chamber maybe the time difference stopped and so the time of the chamber became the same as earth’s time and then when Buu escaped the chamber, he left piccolo and Gotenks behind so now there are two people inside the time Chamber meaning that now the time difference works again and it becomes slower than earth’s time meaning that the couple hours spent getting out of the chamber, it equalled to onle a couple of minutes on earth meaning that Dende got away and with Buu seeing Piccolo and Gotenks came back so Buu is not preocupied by Dende getting away but preocupied by being able to fight Gotenks. But still even with this theory works and is the onlyexplanation this still remains a plot hole because I don’t recall any of the charactors given a script by Toriyama to say in one of the episodes prior to ‘Time Struggle’ or even in that episode that if more than two people go in the Chamber then the time difference stop and becomes the same as earth’s time, that pisses me off. But if the more than two people can go in the time chamber at once and the time difference still applies then why the hell didn’t all four of the saiyans(Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks) in the Andriod/Cell saga go in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at once and as you know at that time Goku was the only one who realy new how to ascend properly to a full-power Saiyan unlike Vegeta and Trunks who only descovered how to ascend to an a Ascended Saiyan and then Ultra Saiyan, then after they all come out from there training, at this time Piccolo would have already faught Android 17 and then Cell would hve arrived and then smashed up Piccolo and then absorbed 17 becoming imperfected then Tien would come and keep using his pathetic Tri beam on cell loads of times then in the actual episode at this point Tien passes out and Goku rescues him and piccolo so if Goku and Gohan where to be in the time Chamber with Trunks and Vegeta Tien and Piccolo would be dead (again). Then Android 18 escapes and hide with 16 and then Cell would start blowing up islands. Then Goku, Gohan, Trunks, and Vegeta would come out of the Chamber and go to cell and relise that he is stronger by absorbing 17 but knowing that he is absolutely no mathc for any of them as Trunks and Vegeta have reached Ascended Saiyan and then Ultra Saiyan, but Goku and Gohan would have reached Ascended, Ultra and Full Power super saiyan levels without Trunks and Vegeta knowing, then Vegeta would insist to fight first as he is arragant, and just like in the actual episode he woul pound cell to a pulp and Cell would go mad and then Cell would persade Vegeta to let him absorb 18 and then Trunks would try to stop him, and because Goku is in certain way like Vegeta who loves a challenge lets Cell absorb 18, so thn cell does and bece perfect cell and smashes up Trunks and Vegeta oh and Krillin and then as Goku fights him as full power saiyan form it bcomes and even fight, as this is happening vegeta and krillin are given a sensue bean they both wake up and watch the fight, Vegeta gets pissed because he has been brushed aside by cell and descovers that Goku has reach a higher level than him and this realy get to him and then before you know it he start yelling kakarott and stuff. Then either Goku just gets beaten by cell or he i being beaten and then Goku submits like he does in the actual episode, then he reviels to cell, the other z fighters and the viewrs that Gohan will fight an then in a later episode Goku reveils that he decovered that Gohan is stronger than Goku and that has the potential to Ascend to level further beyond Goku and we thoaght Full powered super saiyan wa sthe highest and then Cell provokes Gohan to get angry and then eventally Gohan does and then Ascends fully to a Super Saiyan 2 and smashes cell up and then beats the crap out the cell juniors that I hve forgotten to mention lol that are beating the other Z fighters up, then Gohan makes Cell puke out 18 and then the rest story lines happens you know it when Cell blows up Goku and King Kai on his planet, Cell, returns and kills Trunks and Vegeta goes ape shit and attacks and then gets beaten and then Gohan defelct the balst fromm cell to kill vegeta and ten gohns power is cut in half, Gohan and cell embark in a mega Kamehameha face off and Gohan wins as vegeta balsts cell off guard and Gohan finishes him and the in te Buu saga it ould have made so much sence when picolo enters the time chamber to bring Buu in the Time chamber with him so that 4 people are in side with te time difference uneffected. See,all this becuase of one stupid plot hole that Akira Toriyama cause as he is so lazy, all this becaus of the debate weather if the time difference becomes effect or not if morethan two people enter at once. Thanks alot Toriyama, but great cartoon though.
So what do you think Chris?
I think you’re right. That’s…that’s pretty much all I think there. The rules of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber got broke and there was zero accountability from the series, as usual. Sad but it happens. A lot apparently.
Valid logic there. However, in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, a whole two hours apparently passed to pass. The half hour Gotenks was fused has passed, but then they had to wait a whole hour for Goten and Trunks to fuse again, making the number of people there jump to three, therefore supposedly aligning that dimension with Earth in time. So yes, I would agree that the time rules between the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and Earth were wrong and create a plot hole. These, of course take a lot of detail and a lot of time to catch and be able to explain
so kudos to you for finding such an elaborate plot hole and actually be able to explain it in detail, giving episode titles and dialogue. Well done sir :{
Aha! Sweet!!! It took me whole 30 minutes to read every comment on this site, and the purpose for this is to see that no one has mentioned the CLEAR-CUT GENUINE plot hole that I have descovered in the Dragonball Z, and every time I research this plot hole it is nowhere to be seen or heard, but seriously? Am I realy the only one out there that has descovered this? I’m being serious I have not seen or heard of anyone knowing about this true Plot Hole, its amazing that no knows this(I think no one knoWs this anyway). Its kinda subliminal, well actually no its not, well you get what I mean its sneaky but its right in your face type thing(this is probably because of memory as there is so much going in the moment). By the way, this is the Plot Hole that occurs in the story line between The Android/Cell Saga and The Buu Saga invovling the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. There is an peice of inconsitency in the plot between these two sagas in this part of the story line of Dragonball Z.
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Lets Define a Plot hole here as there was so much confusion between *you* Chis and that MR.BUU.
A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story’s plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. So for instance, if there is rule stated in an early part of a plot.
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). Now, in the episode ‘Time Chamber’ which is the one after ‘Our Hero Awakens’, Goku says he knows of a place where he can get a whole year of training in one day, he says this to Master Rochi and then he says it again to the Z Fighter inculiding Gohan(but excluding Vegeta and Trunks who are currently somewhere figuring out how to ascend) but more specifically he says this Piccolo who is at the time fused with Kami and then after Goku says this, he then says that the place is located at Kami’s Lookout and with the Knowledge of Kami within Piccolo he already knows what Goku is referring to and then Piccolo says specificallly in repsonse to Goku “So, its back to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, I see, no one has ever been able to stay there for more than a year, no one, it might way more than you can handle Goku”. So th place that Goku is talking about is revieled by Piccolo/Kami as the Hyperbolic time chamber. Those who have watched th adventure of Dragonball in the King Piccolo Saga, Goku trains in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber as little kid but only lasts 5 months which is equal to 11 hours, this is what Goku said to Gohan when they just entered the Time Chamber. Goku then intends to bring Gohan and the other Saiyans(Trunks and Vegeta) with him to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. **Your probly wondering where the hell i’m going with this but please bare with me as it is well worth it.** So anyway, Goku and Gohan travel to where Trunks and Vegeta is via instant transmission to tell them of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and its quality to equate one day into one year inside the Chamber and that it is the best and only chance in order to ascend in such a short amount of time, Trunks immediately agrees with his trust in Goku, Vegeta is ignorant at first but then agrees as it is the best way to ascend. **Now finally the vital piece of information in the next sentence is in brackets of twos stars just like in this sentence**. Goku’s exact words to Vegeta after Vegeta agrees with him of the idea of the Chamber were “Sure but here’s the problem, **ONLY TWO PEOPLE CAN ON IN THE ROOM(referring to the Time Chamber) AT ONCE**, i’m going in with Gohan so you’ll have to go in with Trunks”. **Remember what Goku said here as it is important**. Now skipping all the way to the middle of Buu Saga in the episode called ‘Evil Of Men’ where Majin Buu releases Evil Buu unitentionally and then in the episode ‘Buu Against Buu’ Evil Buu eats Majin Buu after turning him into chocolate causing Evil Buu to transform into Super Buu. Super Buu easily detects where the Z fighters are as they are on Kami’s Look out avoiding Buu at all costs. The reason why Buu is going to Kami’s Lookout to approach the Z fighters is because in the episode ‘Buu’s Mutiny’ Goku said exactly to Badid and Buu when he was Majin Buu(when he was fat before he transformed into Super Buu) after they faught “Hold it Badidi! Those three rats have names, Goten Piccolo and Trunks…And I promise, give them two days and they will be ready to fight. There’s no need for you to destroy West City or kill anyone else, they want to fight you. I’m asking, have some patience, they’ll come to you” Majin Buu then agrees in excitement by asking Goku “Are they realy strong?” Goku replies “Unbeleivably”. So in other words Goku promised Buu when he was Majin Buu a worthy opponent of which by up to this point is already known to be as the fusion of Goten and Trunks, Gotenks. Referring back to the later episode ‘Buu Against Buu’, as Super Buu approaches Kami’s Look out where all the Z fighters(except Vegeta who is dead, Goku whos time has run out and has to retun to Other World, and Gohan who is training on Supreme Kai’s planet(and of cause Tien and Chiatzu aren’t there because they only appear twice in the entire Saga for some reason)) for the purpose of Goku’s promise that he made to Buu, but the Goku said wait two days and it has only been one day at this point. The episode after is called Empty Planet” this is where Piccolo insists that Super Buu has to wait another day but wont tolerate it and says he wants to fight his promissed warrior(Gotenks) now. Piccolo then insists he should at least wait one hour, Super Buu asks how long an hour is, Piccolo provides a timer where the all of the sand inside has to fall through the glass tube(this is embarrising because I don’t no what it’s called LoL). Super Buu waits around thirty minutes, during this time Goten and Trunks are woken up from there sleep not noing that Super Buu is outside and are being sneaked into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber by Krillin and this is where it gets interesting as the Plot Hole is about to take place. In the next episode called ‘Time Struggle’ Goten and Trunks are sneaked into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to train to fight Super Buu as they only have one hour, but in the Time Chamber one hour is 15 days which is a lot of time, but Buu grew tired of waiting and forced Piccolo to take him to Goten and Trunks to fight them even though only 30 minutes have passed whch is eaqual to a week and half a day in the Time Chamber.
In the Android/Cell Saga, you know the episode ‘Our Hero Awakens’ which is the episode where Goku awakens from his long struggle against the Heart Virus, well he says that he wants to ascend to the next level and that he has been hearing everthing that has been happening in his dreams, and he also says that he knows that Vegeta wants to ascend by saying that saw it in his dreams(don’t no how the [expletive] that’s possible but hey
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Do you remember what Goku said about the Hyperboic Time Chamber to Vegeta in The Android/Cell Saga episode call ‘Time Chamber’? Well if you have forgotten, Goku said “Sure but here’s the problem, **ONLY TWO PEOPLE CAN ON IN THE ROOM(referring to the Time Chamber) AT ONCE**, i’m going in with Gohan so you’ll have to go in with Trunks”. So only two people can go inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at the same time, no more than two people can go inside thats the rule, i dont know whats the onsequence if more than two people go in the Time hamber at once but that is the rule. Well referrin back to the episode ‘Time Struggle’ in the Buu Saga, during Goten and Trunks training, Piccolo warns them both telepathically that he is taking Super Buu inside Time Chamber to fight them, but wait just a minute how will that be possible, I thought ONLY TWO PEOPLE ARE ALOUD IN THE HYPERBOLIC TIME CHAMBER AT ONCE, just like what Goku and Mr.Popo said in the Adriod/Cell Saga and no one, not even Kami knows more about Kami’s Look more than Mr.Popo, so at this time this probly a bluff or something, but then when Piccolo and Super Buu approach the door of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber ‘Wholey [expletive]!’ Piccolo is able to open the door and then i’m like “I wanna see what happens to them if all four of them are inside te chamber at once” and then nothing happens and i’m like “what the actual [expletive] is going on here :/” i thoaght only two people are aloud in at once and so now Akira Toriyama is just going to change the plot around without any explanation given in the script for any charactor to get across to the veiwers. What the hell! I think that this is hard to notice because we are more preocupied about Super Buu finally about to fight Gotenks. I seriously can’t beleive that not many know this let alone no one on this page has commented on it yet, I know that most people have commented of the Plot Holes descovered by you Chris but still come on. If thats not a Plot Hole then Plot Holes are nothing short of a mith. ;D No but seriously if any one thinks this isn’t a plot hole pos a comment so I what I have missed.
(This comment is pretty much aimed at Chiris Pranger to see what he has to say, but anyone who wants to comment on this then feel free).
That’s definitely a plothole, you’re right. I can, however, counter this one pretty easily and give my specific reason why I didn’t include it. And here goes:
Goku says only two people can be in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at the same time. This seems pretty standard. Time can only pass at the one day=one year rate when two people are in there. However, and I know this is getting picky, it didn’t feel necessarily like any rules were broken when four people were in the chamber at once. Time seemed to pass normally in the outside world since the Z Fighters on the lookout went about their business during the fight. My argument is that the “only two people” rule applies to the time speed-up, not the actual dimension.
So…that’s my reasoning. I agree though, it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever and felt WAY more like Toriyama just going, “Whatever, I didn’t want to keep writing this anyway, so [expletive] this and just stick them in that stupid Hyperbolic nonsense you made me come up with last time I didn’t give a crap.”
If you remember right, trunks and Vegeta were fighting and trunks just wanted to talk with his father. Goku realized this and so he said that only 2 people could go in so Vegeta and trunks could talk. He was just being nice and was trying to help trunks
I respect your decision. And it’s mostly that some times
people argue that their “anime or manga” is better because it
has less plot holes, even though most of the time they’re wrong.
If this was title, things that don’t make sense in DBZ, then
it wouldn’t attract that much attention.
If you want a laugh though, by Mr.Satan’s Cell Games DVD. =p
Oh man, Mr. Satan’s DVD of the Cell Games was one of the funniest parts of the whole series. If they made a whole movie in that style, I’d buy it.
You can’t counter act what a plot hole is.
The definition is what it is, you can’t change that.
Just because you’re highly ignorant on the subject.
10.
You realize what Vegeta was saying after Namek right?
How he was teasing Gohan? How he was saying Gokus dead for
good like a sadistic creep? Vegeta has a very, broad
character development, Tien never likes him for
what he’s done. Tien didn’t just go around killing
billions of innocent people around the universe.
Yamcha is a little indifferent, he gets used to
him as time goes on though his opinions are a bit
towards Tiens, though no where near as strong.
Gohan has a respect for Vegeta, he’s forgiven him.
He has a pure heart after all. Piccolo, he just
doesn’t like Vegeta’s act. Does that stop him from
giving him respect and still calling him his friend?
No. Goku and Vegeta was pretty much friends by the end.
Character Development isn’t a plot hole.
DBZ has definite rules. It’s a shady area that I just explained
in full detail that you probably didn’t give a second look.
Let’s look at Dabura for a moment, he had his body right?
King Yemma subjected him to judgement anyway, no one but
the kaios and kaioshins are above that power. So what happened?
Dabura didn’t have legs did he? He was a soul, and this places
around a Japanese theory.
I remember someone saying it,
“most lifeforms are not fighters, so they would just be represented as hitodama, or traditional Japanese ghosts (with no legs).
However, your perception of self affects how you see ghosts. That’s why Frieza, even though his body was largely destroyed before his actual death,
appears with a completely organic body. Obviously his perception of self hadn’t caught up with his death of self,
ergo he’s presenting others with how he sees himself still. Same with everyone else, by extension.”
Dabura, Chichi and Bulma didn’t keep their bodies. They were represented as hitodama.
Not to mention that it’s all how the dragon sees the wish fit.
Of course they had to conserve the bodies, when Goku first wishes
someone back to life he it rise from the dirt. Bora.
If the body is destroyed the theory in quotes come into play.
8.
Another ignorant statement, it isn’t in “writing that Frieza had a mother”.
Though it’s quite obvious his father has reproductive organs.
Frieza is known by the North Kai because Frieza’s a land shark.
And this land shark resides in the North side of the universe.
He’s most likely aware of his father, he’s obviously aware of the Ginyu
Force. King Cold probably lives a more, where he lets people do things
for him. Frieza thinks he’s known all through the universe. Is he?
No, just parts of the north side. It’s not unnatural, just an ignorant
assumption on your part.
7.
No, you just fail to comprehend simple things because you
look at it from a black and white perspective.
6.
That’s a shame, because you are a moron for doing so.
Especially when you think you can change the definition of words.
You pretty much are a moron if you can’t see how painfully obvious
this one is. If it showed Cell kill someone in a flashback, but
he was only saying it as a bluff, that must mean it happened.
See how your logic fails?
5.
Seriously how retarded are you?
Buu+Candy=Buu Candy
Buu Candy+Buu’s evil coming out.
Buu’s evil was on the inside originally, by doing this
it switched, his good was on the inside and his evil was on
the outside. Eating people kills them, absorbing them
puts them in a chamber where he can use their power.
Simple context.
4.
Yes, in real life people do it all the time.
I don’t see how that’s impossbile for a cartoon.
In fact it’s not, it’s been done plenty of times
as to where a character goes back, “did I say that?”
3.
They had to wait six months for another wish. Bulma and
summoned the Dragon on earth. But Goku stopped her.
They used it to wish away the memories of Majin Buu.
Plus the damage Buu did was pretty much almost “un do able”
since Porunga had such a hard time with one planet, and Shenlong
isn’t any where near as powerful.
2.
It’s simple, a lot of things don’t make sense to you.
1.
Obviously they don’t talk a light speed.
Goku and Frieza fighting at 186,000 miles per second
should speak for itself, 5 minutes of punching and kicking
would have happened in a few seconds.
Not to mention that Frieza and Goku fighting is happening
at the same time as things on Earth.
When five minutes are up, frieza says, “I’ll give it a few more minutes”
Since he didn’t add enough chi/ki.
If you think that was a “heck of a response”, you really haven’t been
arguing with people that much.
C’est la vie.
Jeez, well that was another heck of a response. Look, I respect what you’re doing here, and it’s impressive, because I’ve gotten a lot of crap in my life due to my love of Dragon Ball Z and even I have to step back and go, “Damn, it’s just a cartoon bro.” You’ve got arguments that I disagree with because of how I’m defining a plothole. You know what? Disregard me calling it a plothole. I clearly misspoke like Raditz. What I meant to say was, “Overall, here are twenty things I find ridiculous in this cartoon.” Not necessarily wrong, but ridiculous. I openly stated that I’m going off the Us dub for better or worse, so yeah, a lot of these ridiculous things are problems caused by a faulty dub. It bugged me more that these issues weren’t resolved after all the redubs they’ve done, though I don’t know if Dragonball Z Kai fixed any of them.
Simply, I tip my hat to you, but you’re not convincing me, as I’m not convincing you, either. And that’s okay. You can be the Goku to my Vegeta in this moment. Or the Goku to my Krillin if that makes you feel better. I’m not even trying to disregard your responses by saying, “Whatever dude.” I just literally can’t put any more effort into refuting arguments like these based on a miscommunication of terms and facts, ie, you’re following Japanese dubs and extra facts whereas I’m going purely off things in the show. It’s the same reason I thought Rowling was full of crap when she said Dumbledore was gay. If it wasn’t in the books, it didn’t happen. Same goes for me right now. If it wasn’t explained clearly in the Us dubs I’m making light of, it didn’t happen. I don’t think DBZ is black and white, but sometimes, friendo, you’ve got to take a step back and laugh. Trust me, you’ll feel better.
Pranger, out.
10. Vegeta Hated By Proxy:
That’s not a plot hole.
A plot hole is an impossible event.
Certain characters didn’t like Vegeta because he’s killed an
extreme amount of innocent people off camera, he’s also crule and
sarcastic as well as bitter to the majority of good guys.
Piccolo deems Vegeta his friend in the Buu saga, Vegeta deems Gohan
his friend in the Cell saga. This is called character development, not a
plot hole.
9.
This is easy.
King Yemma’s powerlevel is over 1500, that’s being blunt.
King Kai’s is 3500, according to V-Jump.
Frieza’s max is 120,000,000 according to Daizenshuu 7.
Though the whole keeping your body thing is filler, it can still be put
into logical context.
When you die in the Dragon Ball certain techniques can’t be used to go
to certain places. Instant Transmission can’t be used in Hell.
King Yemma has the power granted to him in the afterlife to
judge a soul, when they’re dead. Frieza and Cell are no execptions.
They’re submiited to judgement without a say in the matter.
It should also be noted Vegeta actually loses his body in the Buu saga.
King Yemma saved it just in case. That’s probably because he’s delt with Vegeta
prior to this. He knows his history. Yemma has his own reasons as to why
he wouldn’t let Vegeta have his body, though most people would think about
Cell and Frieza, right? They’re pretty evil, so it should be certain that they’d
cause trouble, right? It may be that Yemma doesn’t have the power to remove
bodies from such powerful beings. Wait, what about Vegeta?
That just means Vegeta’s base power is a lot weaker than Frieza’s final form and
Cell’s perfect form. Remember the SSJ stages are multipliers.
This is all perfectly logical, perhaps if Vegeta got pissed and decided to
go SSJ2 he wouldn’t have been able to have his body taken away, though
he would still have to proceed under judgement. Then the other theory which
was vaguely referenced a little while ago, it was just against Yemma’s better
judgement to let Cell and Frieza keep their bodies and not Vegeta.
Also, perserving bodies for Shenlong? What’s the deal with that?
It’s believed that they need to perserve their bodies, otherwise
they won’t be wished back.
Well as it would seem, they’d just be wished back into a dried up old corpse.
People like Goku who exploded kept their body in the afterlife, wait
but didn’t it explode? Yes, this is basically Goku’s exact body after he
was killed, so wouldn’t that leave it open that everyone should have their
body once they’re killed? This goes back to the whole powerlevel idea.
That if someone is strong enough they may keep their body. King Kai
did because he’s a Kai, Goku because of King Kai most likely.
So what about Raditz keeping his body? It could just be Yemma didn’t think
he’d be able to cause any real harm. So why wasn’t he a soul? That’s most likely
due to his powerlevel being bigger than the average living creature.
Wait what do you mean by that? The majority of creatures that are souls in
DBZ are generally weak. The strong fighters that usually keep their bodies go
to the Grand Kai’s planet. While some burn in Hell, or HFIL in the censored DUB
by FUNimation. I could elaborate on solutions forever, this isn’t a plot hole.
8.
How is this a plot hole? Frieza mentioned his parents are the only ones
that have ever been able to hurt him while he’s fighting Goku, so he’s
above him in leadership and in power. The reason their isn’t many “changlings”?
Changling is an often used fan term created by Japanese fans for Frieza’s race, by the way.
So why? Thet could be in different sections of the universe, King Kai is known as the North
Kaio for a reason. It could be they all died some how, the reasons that can be supplied
are endless. This is no where near close to a plot hole.
7.
This is a very sensitive case, the dragons are their own people.
They’ve been given magical powers that allow them to do things their
creators can not, but these things can’t exceed their creator’s power.
Where someone is wished is completely based on the dragon’s opinion of how
he sees it to be fit, not a plot hole.
6.
This is simple but confusing to fans who aren’t really di hard for the
series. Toriyama was going to end the manga with Goku dying as the savior of the
universe. His editor pushed him to go on.
Now even if you don’t believe a word of that, even though it’s true,
what possible explantion do you have for us? WE SAW GOKU DIE!
Well as you know King Kai can’t view things very well movie at light speed.
He also has a hard time seeing things while a planets on the verge of
being destroyed.
This taken in, we can assume we were watching what King Kai assumed happen.
Or what he thought he was seeing. As in many types of anime and various movies,
things aren’t just black and white. You have to think a little, most people would
go DBZ isn’t deep it’s all fighting, yelling and plot holes. Well that person
is a complete moron. They never ask, why are they fighting? What’s going on here?
What could this character be doing? Why was King Kai having trouble seeing Goku and
Frieza? How can I apply that here? It’s all screaming dude. Not really, there’s
two major scenes out of 291 episodes that are really just screaming, and they’re
both for good reasons. You’ll here minor screaming for powering up, everything else
is from being hit hard or a battle cry. So is this a plot hole? Nope, even
though this is where it was going to end, they managed to show us
they still have the magic.
5.
This is really simple.
Fat Buu was kept because he’s apart of Evil Buu.
Super Buu states he wouldn’t be himself without him.
You don’t die as the candy, Vegito proves this.
You die when he chews you, Buu being an exception.
Piccolo, Trunks, Goten and Gohan are absorbed thrugh Buu’s skin.
This is entirely different, not even close to a plot hole.
4.
This is a dub error, but don’t fear we can use a simple logic.
Of course the meteor part isn’t the problem, since the saiyans were led to believe that.
The actual destruction took place 24 years before Raditz came to Earth, so what’s the deal here?
It’s most likely that Raditz was erroneously thinking, meaning he wasn’t thinking clearly.
It may have just been a slip of words. He may or may not have realized this, but it’s highly doubtful that he would mention due to his pride.
This isn’t a Plot Hole, not really even something that’s inconsistent,
this more along the lines of one of those things where people slip up while they’re talking. This happens a lot in
real life. It’s not like he’s perfect (like Cell).
3.
How is this a plot hole, an impossible event?
Why wasn’t Planet Vegeta wished back? Why weren’t the saiyans wished back?
It was mentioned early on in the Anime that you cannot be wished back to life by the Dragon Balls if you have been Dead for over 2 years.
Plain and simple. Maybe in some of the time gaps they tried to undo some of Buu’s damage, unlikely.
2.
This isn’t a plot hole, it’s just who has a better control over their ki/chi type deal.
As the person mentally matures, they also mature in spirit.
Cell’s powerup before coming back from self destructing shook the Earth half to death.
It depends on how the energy is released from the individual.
If it’s rash, like Vegeta’s was on Earth it’s gonna be a problem.
If it’s controled like Goku’s on Namek, it’s fine.
1.
You have to understand that Goku and Frieza were attacking eachother at light speed.
And that moments are slowed down for us to see (Not that it could be animated that fast anyway).
Frieza gives it a few extra minutes when he realizes he didn’t put enough
energy into his Death Ball. And you also realize when they show Goku and
Frieza fighting the scene after on Earth was happening at the exact same time.
It could add to about 10 minutes if you took all that in and added it together.
That is the speed they’re using, the things happening at the same time.
Things that happened that are being shown from a different angle, etc.
Even if this weren’t the case, even though it is, Frieza having a bad sense
of time isn’t a plot hole.
A plothole according to me is anything that doesn’t make rational sense.
10. Vegeta’s character got hated by people that used to be villains and all tried to kill Goku at one point or another. I don’t care, that doesn’t really make sense to me. Plus, if they really did hate Vegeta that much, they would have left and told him to deal with Frieza himself. There’s just no middle ground. Warriors that come back from the dead don’t pull junior high antics with emotions and snide remarks.
9. Souls losing bodies and getting them back doesn’t make sense because they stop following logic when it gets too tricky. They make a note of preserving some bodies but not others. Tien and Yamcha doth had their bodies left over after dying hen the Saiyans arrived, but no one brought those bodies to Porunga when they needed to be wished back. Also, everyone on Earth keeps getting killed over and over again, usually blown up, yet their bodies are in tact. That does not make sense. Even more, they chance the depiction of souls just to show Bulma, Chi-Chi and Videl talking to Dabura in Heaven, which just goes to show they don’t care about consistency. Which is it? A cartoon without any sense of continuity or a series with definite rules? You don’t get both.
8. As I’ve said before, if it isn’t in the writing, it didn’t happen. Someone in the show is going to ask, “Where’s Frieza’s race and what happened to them?” because they’re going to need to know that. Frieza is known as the strongest power in the universe by multiple people, including King Kai (a “god”), so when his father shows up it doesn’t seem natural. Apparently his father is also in a position of power and turns out to be stronger than Frieza. The way it was pulled off just doesn’t make sense.
7. The rules they’ve written for the Dragon Ball gets broken whenever the plot deems it and for that I say it doesn’t make sense.
6. Okay, you need to stop assuming I’m a moron and listen to me: I DO NOT CARE about intent of a writer, and furthermore, I DO NOT CARE that Toriyama was “forced” to keep going. Showing one thing and then undoing it by simply saying, “Oh yeah, that didn’t happen” doesn’t work. Who’s to say anything ever happened then? Maybe Goku’d been lying to us the whole time and just made up all the wonderful things he did? He’s shown that he doesn’t really care about anyone else unless it deems worthy to the plot, so maybe he’s been extremely selfish all the time and taken credit for everything? We don’t know because according to you WE WEREN’T THERE. I just can’t listen to “You have to think for a minute because the show isn’t black and white.” What does that even mean? I know that tactic, you’re trying to sound smarter than me. I concede that you’re not stupid, but you’re going to half to meet me half way here and admit that I’m not stupid, either. Then again I can’t see you writing this, so who knows what’s really happening on your end. My simple answer for Goku’s two escapes is: The writers got lazy. It’d even be as simple as just saying, “And then Goku used Instant Transmission.” How did he randomly learn a new ability out of nowhere? well, he learned how to read minds on his ship to Namek, so within the world, yes, it makes sense that when Goku had to learn something he’d just learn it. You’re not talking your way out of this plothole with a “But but but, what if guys?”
5. “But but but, what if guys?” Can’t break rules when you’re going for continuity, can’t expect anything but being judged as black and white if you decide to be a cartoon. That simple. “Buu can’t die as candy” isn’t a reasonable argument. It doesn’t make sense and therefore is a plothole.
4. Seriously? You’re going with “Maybe Raditz just misspoke to cover a dubbing error?” really? Okay, if you’re not going to take this seriously then I don’t know how we’re going to find a meeting of wits here. Poor dub=plothole on our end. End of story.
3. You can’t use the Dragon Ball’s ability to skirt the rules in one bullet point and then use their “rules” to defend something in another. Simply put, the wish would have made more sense to be “Please restore everything Buu destroyed in the past three days.” I don’t care if your rebuttal is that Vegeta could have just not been thinking clearly. His wish was getting run through Dende, Kabitoshin, and Elder Kai. One of them, as gods and demigods, would have just said, “You know, we should probably wish back those other planets, too.” How can I not take the show as being black and white if they do things like that?
2. Fine, controlling your power makes everything just hunky dory. It still doesn’t make sense to me.
1. PEOPLE DO NOT TALK AT LIGHTSPEED. That’s all I really need to say there. I’ve thought about the battle consisting at super speeds and I’m fine with that, but the simple dialogue exceeds five minutes, or even ten minutes, making the hyperspeed argument moot. Frieza having a bad sense of time isn’t a plothole but emphasizing the point for dramatic effect certainly is.
Phew, that was a heck of a response to your two arguments I’d say. Too bad it’s just going to be countered with “Well, you clearly are a moron since you think this show is black and white.” Prove me wrong and show you’ve got respect for me next time you come in with erroneous statements.
one thing to contradict your 5 mins. on namek theory. On one episode where namek is blwing up, theres a scene where Gohan leaves the spaceship and bulma is left alone on the ship. she runs a calculation on her computer (which is most likely synchronized to earth time and no other time because that is where they are from and what are the odds they took the time to learn the times of other planets) and says “THE COMPUTER SAYS THE PLANET WILL EXPLODE IN 3 MINUTES!!!” or close to that. so now that i have contradicted your theory, the 5 minutes remain unanswered lol
Well, glad to know the show went out of its way to make sure it never made sense.
Nobody seems to touch on the fact that Bulma’s mom is a huge MILF…
I never understood why everything changed so much after Trunks traveled back in time. Nothing that him or Cell did would have affected everything that much. There’s no reason for Dr. Gero to randomly make 3 more androids in one timeline than he did in the other.
Did you all notice the problem with tails though? In Dragon Ball, Goku loses his tail all the time but it always grows back. It’s not until he gets it permanently removed with Kami that it’s gone for good. But in Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta gets his tail cut off by Yajirobe during his fight with Goku, and it’s gone for good. Something similar happens to Gohan too. It makes no sense. They should have grown back.
I agree with you Someguy, Goku arrives 2 hours after Trunks killed Frieza and says that it’s a good thing that Trunks showed up, because Goku was going to have to use his instant transmission to get there before Frieza. So why didn’t he?
I agree with the whole tail conundrum. I mentioned it in one of my two DBZ plotholes articles.
As for Goku waiting the two hours to fight Frieza, I remember Goku explaining it away that he was going to teleport to Earth in order to fight Frieza, but he sensed Trunks appear, so he didn’t. Trunks didn’t realize Goku could teleport in the first place, so not seeing Goku appear yet and assuming he wouldn’t appear for another two hours, Trunks stepped in and helped while goku sat back and let him take over. This of course begs the question of the time paradox created here. In Trunks’ time, Trunks couldn’t have beaten Frieza, so it must have either been Goku or one of the other Z Fighters. Yet Trunks thinks Goku will arrive at an exact time two hours from when he kills Frieza. How does that make any sense?
The 5 minutes is definitely bad. I’ve come up with the same explanation too: it’s probably just 5 minutes in Namek time or something. But that’s still really stupid considering how about 99% of the rest of the show is so earth-biased (like the fact that they all speak English/Japanese..)
I can’t know since I’ve never read the manga, but the explanation might come from there. Anime shows are churned out way faster than Manga because a book-long fight scene can be shown on TV in about five minutes. So Anime ends up having a ton of filler so it doesn’t get ahead of the Manga. Again, I have no idea if that’s the case here, though.
The thing that bothers me is why they picked 5 minutes. They had to know that this would sound really stupid. Why not just pick something more realistic like 2 hours. It wouldn’t even have to be specific. He could just say “a few hours.” If I knew a planet was going to blow up in a few hours I think it would carry a much better suspense level than 5 minutes. You would have to save everyone on the planet and punch the bad guy in an ambiguous but still ridiculously short time. 5 minutes is just hopeless. You might as well give up and start repenting.
Agreed. It just pains me to no end that something this simple isn’t fixed in even the most recent redubbings. Maybe Dragon Ball z Kai finally fixes it, but c’mon, they should have known better from the start. That’s just lazy writing.
Something I forgot to put last night.
You could explain Goku and Gohan’s visions/dreams of enemies that they haven’t yet faced as that seeing as Goku’s dad and Gohan’s granddad was Bardock and he was given the power of foresight (and seeing as Saiyan’s seem to pass on powers) even if it’s just a little bit. Could account for this (and it makes, somewhat, sense).
Seeing as if Bardock couldn’t control his visions. Goku and Gohan might have even less control and they come even less frequently.
I don’t think that’s the case. Bardock was forcibly given his future sight powers after Goku was already born, so there’s really no way for him to have passed that down to his son or grandson. I think Goku and Gohan seeing enemies in visions is just another plothole.
When Goku mentions that he could have used Instant Transmission to get back to earth in order to stop Frieza Again.
Why didn’t he do that rather than wait, like 2 hours (which if you count Trunks not suppose to be being there) would mean that Frieza could have totaled the planet earth and gone off to Freiza planet #79 for lattes (or maybe Frieza would have just laughed for 10 episodes about how he couldn’t stop him now).
Actually reading up the list you could explain that away as that particular bit wasn’t suppose to happen. But that takes the fun away.
Another thing (pet peeve), I thought that it made sense for Goku to only become a Super Saiyan (not to mention make it actually worth something, which if the series ended there like originally intended, would have made a greater impact).
Having only Goku be able to do it, made it seem like he was the legendary super saiyan.
Rather than needing to have every character with a slight hint of saiyan blood to become one willy nilly and having those ridiculous higher levels, why not just make the first one more powerful? Admittedly I do think that ssj4 looks relly cool (maybe would have worked better if that was the design for the first ssj level).
Anyway hope this sounds better to you guys (writing this at about 3 in the morning + extremely tired) I really hope it makes sense to you guys through my incoherent sleepy ramblings.
Thanks for reading
As someone said before in Dragon Ball when Goku trains with Po Po and Kami, Kamimakes a deal to bring the moon back if Goku gets his tail removed permanently. So the moon is back and then Piccolo destroys the new moon.
1. In dragonball master roshi during the world tournament destroys the moon with a kamehama blast, the power level of the blast could’nt have been over 1000 so during the sayian battle goku’s power level is 5000 so why can’t one punch from goku into the earth make a 200 ft crater?
2. What about when piccolo is training gohan, gohan transforms into a great ape but master roshi already destroyed the moon, then piccolo destroys the moon again.
Seems like everyone is forgetting the biggest plot hole in all of Dragon Ball…When Goku killed King Piccolo, Kami should have died too. (I just realized that King Piccolo sent out Piccolo before he died so my bad) Also when Goku was fighting Piccolo Jr, Kami told Tien to kill him so Piccolo would die to and then said that they could just bring him back with the dragonballs, but aren’t the Dragonballs connected to Kami? So the dragonballs should have ceased to exist if that happened.
Well, we cannot say that the planet Nameck exploded in the right second they change the points of view, from the planet to the space.
True, but we still see a series of events play out that happen completely differently between the Frieza Saga and the Trunks Saga. Didn’t matter when the planet blows up or even if the planet blows up, we’ve still seen one instance where Goku flies away from Frieza’s ship and watches it fall and another where he runs around on it while it’s falling and leaps to safety, blasting off right before hitting lava. Both of those events cannot co-exist without a plothole occurring. It’d be like seeing Goku and Raditz hit by the Special Beam Cannon but then Goku doesn’t die because he says, “Oh yeah, I jumped out of the way at the last second. Close call!” The events just don’t work in conjunction.
About number six, a think Goku was talking about Vegeta or Kiwi’s pod.
I don’t think it really matters who the pod belongs to. The key plothole is the sequence shown for Goku’s escape/not escape. In the Frieza Saga we see Goku on Frieza’s ship, failing to get it to start, and eventually flying up to look down on the ship melting into lava. However, in the Trunks Saga, Goku explains the details as him leaping from Frieza’s ship into a space pod that was falling next to Frieza’s ship. Doesn’t matter who the pod belongs to, the escape was impossible since we saw it originally not happen. It would have made more sense to just say that Goku learned Instant Transmission randomly out of nowhere and escaped to planet Yardred on accident than to explain things away with a series of events that we know couldn’t have happened.